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Poster: Arck Date: Jun 19, 2012 3:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

Periodically I like to post speculative and unhelpful (but, to me, very interesting) questions about unknowns in Dead performances. This is another, and I post it knowing how annoyed some people here seem to get about pure speculation or even educated guessing. Sorry but I guess I'm just more fascinated by what could have happened in a ballroom in the Pacific Northwest 42 years ago than I am about the best version of Terrapin from between 1984 and 1986.

Anyway, following the release of RT2.2 a few years ago, I've tried to work out the likely permutations of the sets and where the bonus stuff we got on it fits in. I emailed DL2 about this in the hope he would tell me about where the fragments were on which bits of tape but so far no reply.

I'll discuss my deductions. We have:

Viola Lee Blues - 20 Jan
Schoolgirl - 20 Jan
BIODTL - "23" Jan
Hurts Me Too - "23" Jan
Viola Lee Blues - "23" Jan
Dark Star> China> Eleven - "23" Jan
Lovelight - "23" Jan
Dark Star - 2 Feb

The 20 Jan stuff

My hunch is that the cut Dark Star is the concluding song (like on 2 Feb, more on that later) so my best bet was that Viola Lee and Schoolgirl begin the set but with the cut Clementine and Dark Star, it's guess work. Viola Lee opened or came early in several shows around that time (2 Feb, 23 Feb). Schoolgirl came early in the set on 14 Feb, 24 Feb and 29 Mar but it ended or came towards the end of the set or show on 17 Jan, 2 Feb, 3 Feb and 16 Mar. It's six of one and half a dozen of the other, but the end of Schoolgirl certainly doesn't sound like the end of the show so I'm inclined to think these two songs came on their own piece of tape, meaning they're most certianly from the beginning.

The 2 Feb Dark Star

Nothing controversial here. It ends with a "bye" from Pigpen so, unless you tell me otherwise, I think it's obvious this Dark Star ends the 2 Feb show.

The "23" Jan stuff

I won't engage in the 22/23 v 26/27 debate and shall refer to these as "23" Jan and associate them with the existing "23" Jan material. Nevertheless, I'm all but certain the "27" Jan //Spanish Jam completes the "23" Jan Spanish Jam// (and I'm aware of the disagreement previously expressed) and that all the "23" and "27" Jan stuff we have is from the same show.

This one is the most complicated, so it's also the most fun. From this date already circulating was a TIFTOO> Clementine> New Potato> Born Cross-Eyed> Spanish Jam//. As I said, I associate the "27" Jan //Spanish Jam with this and after the music ends on the "27" fragment, you can here Jerry (I think) say "see you next time we're in Seattle." Anyway, this looks a lot like a complete set, or the bulk of a set. It would be a second set if the "see you next time we're in Seattle" //Spanish Jam is from the same show.

Out of the bonus tracks we have Hurts Me Too, Viole Lee Blues, Dark Star> China> Eleven and Lovelight. Reading around various blogs and websites, I and others will have seen the Seattle Helix article that refers to the Saturday show starting with Lovelight so I'd propose that our Lovelight, which is stand-alone, was the show-opener.

The banter before Viola Lee Blues is both amusing and a logical follow-on to the banter before Lovelight, i.e. "dancing is good" followed after the Lovelight by "the cops say you can't dance" and "that was short-lived wasn't it?" The Seattle Helix article actually refers to them playing Lovelight to get the crowd going, then the licence inspectors telling the crowd to stop. The article says the inspectors asked "the Quick" to tell the crowd to stop dancing but this is the only place the article refers to the "Quick" rather than "Quicksilver" so I'd suggest it's a mistake. The article and the banter are too perfectly synchronised otherwise, although perhaps I just want it to make sense.

After that, I'm totally guessing but BIODTL seems like a set opener - lots of banter, lots of stuffing around, more talk of dancing. I had assumed for a while that the BIODTL and Hurts Me Too come together but on closer inspection, the Hurts Me Too fades in. Does it come from the start of a reel? It fades out very quickly so it's impossible to place it. As far as BIODTL being a set opener goes, it opened set 2 on 17 Jan and was second song in set 2 possibly on 22 Feb and 31 Mar. Hurts Me Too came after TIFTOO> New Potato on 3 Feb, was around the second song on 23 Feb and first or second song in the second set on 16 Mar. I'm probably coupling these songs erroneously. Just because they're tracks 8 and 9 on the CD doesn't mean they come together or have anything to do with each other aside from being in the same show.

It's tough trying to place the Dark Star> China> Eleven as well because Eleven peters out, then the track fades. AS I understand it, every other Eleven we have from this period except for 17 Jan doesn't stop dead. The 17 Jan Eleven winds down into silence. and this was only a week and a half later. It's quite possible they did the same thing on "23" Jan as they were still working out where to take the suite. Perhaps the tape cut so it might be impossible to tell.

The TIFTOO also fades up in the circulating version I've heard, which is also consistent with it existing on its own for so long, i.e. as a distinct tape.

So, my ramblings give me a set of something like this (but I'm not satisfied about BIODTL and Hurts Me Too):

1: Lovelight, Viola Lee Blues, Dark Star> China> Eleven

2: BIODTL, Hurts Me Too, TIFTOO> Clementine> New Potato> Born Cross-Eyed> Spanish Jam

Anyone care to indulge me by joining in on the sepculation or giving at least some hints, if there's anything to go by? Of course, if all the bonus stuff came from random tapes, it's academic and even DL2 won't be able to help.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jun 19, 2012 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

Great speculation on a period that I wish we didn't have to speculate so much on (!).
I wonder if any of the Quicksilver sets were taped ? This is from that great second, "Happy Trails" , line-up . It would be a sweet dream come true if a whole evening of this paring surfaced . Oh Well .

This post was modified by Dudley Dead on 2012-06-19 17:07:04

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Poster: hrsauertieg Date: Jun 22, 2012 8:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

Yes, this is something I've thought about too. Because the Dead carried on for so long, got so big & popular, and had a huge tape-trading fan base, we get an incomplete picture of those Pigpen-era shows where the Dead were just part of the package. Surely if they went with the flow on certain nights, it would be useful to know & hear what other bands shared the stage and what they performed and how well, etc. I'd love to see some multi-disc sets of complete shows from the Avalon, Family Dog, Fillmore, et al. with everybody included -- I guess Owsley/Bear made recordings of many bands which are only now (in this century) leaking out. I'd like to hear more. More! I must have more!

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jun 19, 2012 2:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

a post about '68 GD? please, post away, you're speaking my language, so to speak ... after i got RT2.2 i did as well try to piece the pieces together, but i think i was more or less satisfied with even vague or unspecific placements ... while i do (of course) love to have all the disparate info coalesce into a beautiful tableau of 100% accuracy, not just with GD, but with all entries in my music archive, i soon realized it's nigh impossible, so i guess i've settled for as close as possible; but, rest assured your post is much appreciated, and i've copied it for later and further perusal

more importantly, your post has prompted me to give these shows a re-listen tonite, it has been too long...

it goes without saying, one of Cliff's favorite tours

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 19, 2012 7:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

Actually, my all time favorite tour!

Plenty to speculate about what in all likelihood will never get clarified. And while it's a virtual certainty that the music attributed to 1/22-23 is from the 26th and 27th, i find it difficult to believe that there were no shows performed between 1/20 and 1/26. I do find it somewhat odd that an official release would attribute music to a performance on 1/23.

Back in Negambo, Sri Lanka , where I made a new friend...

Photobucket

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 19, 2012 9:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

"I made a new friend..."

I was sure it was going to be a bottle of beer!

;)

Good pic though; relaxed enough?

[Hell, I was missing beer after reading your posts, har, har]

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Poster: Arck Date: Jun 20, 2012 8:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

Alright, I've thought some more about this and it seems illogical to me that the "newly discovered" stuff would be from anywhere other than the first and TIFTOO is a common set-starter (the night before, 3 Feb, 14 Feb, 17 Mar) set so my latest theory is:

1: Lovelight, BIODTL (chatter about dancing), Viola Lee Blues (no more dancing), Hurts Me Too, Dark Star> China> Eleven

2: (as we know)

I'm starting to see just how futile this is.

Cliff - I agree two-fold:
1. DL2 has told me in the past that the tapes say "23 Jan" so that's what they go on (but then what of Anthem only referring to 26 and 27 Jan? That must have come from somewhere.
2. I understand it has been all but established the band returned to San Francisco for the week so there's definitely plenty of scope for shows that week. In light of just finding out about a show on 16 Feb, I'd say it's more than likely there was at least something somewhere around San Francisco that week before they travelled to Seattle.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 20, 2012 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

My guess is that there were shows on 1/22-23, and the reels for these were taped over with the performances on the 26th and 27th. But who knows...

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Poster: Arck Date: Jun 20, 2012 8:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

A very, very sensible suggestion, and about as eye-watering (or maybe more so) as the 31 December '68 show being wiped.

If there had been shows on either or both of those dates, surely there will be some information somewhere. It has to exist in a newspaper clipping, on a poster, a handbill, in a ledger, or in someone's memory...doesn't it?

I haven't read it but doesn't McNally's book refer quite specifically to this period? I can't remember where I read about it but I'm sure LiA was involved in the discussion. LiA, know what I'm talking about it? It's the excerpt that seemed to confirm the band returned to San Francisco rather than loiter in the North-West.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 20, 2012 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

This post talks about the January '68 schedule:
http://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2011/03/grateful-dead-tour-itinerary-january.html
(The writer unfortunately hasn't covered Feb '68 yet.)

"The band flew to the Eureka show and returned [to SF], and then flew to Seattle, so they never spent any time at large in the Northwest between Jan 21 and Jan 25."

The article also mentions that SF-area shows in January were not reported due to a newspaper strike; and we have no knowledge of out-of-town shows either; but it does seem unlikely that the Dead would only play two shows in the first 3 weeks of January!

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Poster: jgmf Date: Jun 20, 2012 8:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

See also this, if it hasn't been mentioned (sorry, I don't keep up much with the forum posts here):

http://jgmf.blogspot.com/2010/05/gd-at-eagles-auditorium-seattle-wa.html

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Poster: Arck Date: Jun 20, 2012 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

DL2 just sent me a brief reply. The gist of it is the same as previous emails, i.e. they don't release information they haven't verified.

He did say the Dark Star from 2 Feb was a stand-alone encore. Interesting stuff.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 19, 2012 8:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

This isn't entirely connected to your speculations, but I was excited to learn a little while back that the Dead actually played a show in Turlock, California on Feb 16 '68!
http://mercedmusic.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/grateful-dead-crystal-syphon-turlock-feb-16-1968/

This would've come between the show outside San Quentin prison on Feb 15, and the Selland Arena show in Fresno on Feb 17. (Both shows with Country Joe, but the Turlock show was with a group called the Crystal Syphon.)
Whether the Dead taped the 16th or 17th is unknown...

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Poster: Arck Date: Jun 20, 2012 8:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Piecing together the Quick & The Dead tour

Dear God...how did I miss that post? Another lost show from 1968? How upsetting (but intriguing). Thank you for sharing this LiA.